October 3, 2007
Congregations Aren’t Stupid
Eugene Peterson writes in his book Under the Predictable Plant,
“The congregation is not the enemy. Pastoral work is not adversarial. These people in the pews are not aliens to be conquered – defeated and then rehabilitated to the satisfaction of the pastoral ego. Thomas Merton wrote, “it is both dangerous and easy to hate man as he is because he is not ‘what he ought to be.’ if we do not first respect what he is we will never suffer him to become what he ought to be: in our impatience we will do away with him altogether… and the congregation is not stupid and lumpish, waiting for pastoral enlightenment. Condescension is pastors is even worse than hostility.”
This are some great thoughts from one of my impersonal spiritual mentors. Those of us who are pastors know how easy it would be (and sometimes is) to wish your congregation was something else or acted different ways. Really, when it comes down to thinking this way, we just want them to be what we have for them rather than what God has for them. Or, at least, we’re pretty sure we know what God has for them and we’re pretty sure they don’t. There is a fine line between shepherding a community and assuming to always know what is best for them.
I think when you are shepherding a community, its a very relational process. Learning together what God has for the community. When as pastor is assuming what is best its not a cooperative effort anymore. It becomes the pastor telling everyone else what to do. In this approach, it doesn’t seem like there is that much listening involved.
Alan Roxburgh says that the spirit of God is among the people of God. If that’s the case, as pastors we’d better be taking the humble approach of cooperation rather than the arrogant approach of assuming to know what is best.
Remember that old saying, “God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life”… Sometimes I think pastors take the approach, “Your Pastor loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life.” Too bad pastor’s aren’t quite as accurate with those plans as the Holy Spirit is.
Our congregations aren’t stupid. At least, not any more than the pastor is!
Remember, the Spirit of God is among the people of God.
10.3.07
By: JR Rozko
Hey Todd. Love the post man, but wanted to add a thought for the sake of discussion. I know Alan reasonably well – that is to say that I have spent some time with him at a few conferences and chatted with him over meals and coffee on occasions at Fuller. I have had the chance to hear him offer that bit of wisdom on many occasions, but it’s never sat quite right with me. It’s an incomplete truism, it needs a “but…”
Truly, the Spirit of God is with the people of God – a reality we far too often overlook given just how individualistically we are trained to think and act. But, like any good realization, this can be taken too far. I have seen where people emphasize this to the exclusion of anyone being able to take a stand for anything – to discern what stands as faithful or falls as unfaithful. Yes, the Spirit of God is with the people of God. No, this does not mean that everyone’s opinion is equally valid. Yes, everyone should be listened to. No, everyone’s thoughts cannot be synthesized.
I think this is probably one of the more legitimate critiques that some of the “reformed” crowd has levied against the emerging church crowd. Now, the vast majority of them swing too far the other way, leaving little room for discussion or exploration, but there’s some merit to their concern.
I don’t think I am saying anything at all against what you have posted, just taking the opportunity to add some thoughts I have had on the same topic.
10.3.07
By: Todd
JR, yes, yes, and yes.
After I wrote the post I had the thought, “sure the Spirit is among his people… that i believe is true. But sin happens right?”
Perhaps than a better way to look at the pastoral vocation is to see the role as one who helps unearth and uncover the Spirit that is there. Its there, but sometimes its just really clouded by dirt and filth and part of the journey is to, in community, listen and challenge each other to discern the Spirit together.
So, maybe a better way to say it is this: the Spirit of God is among the people of God. Together, the pastor and congregation seek to be in fellowship with the Spirit so as to maintain a faithful, contextual witness in the world…
10.3.07
By: JR Rozko
A Peterson disciple indeed. Love it bro!!
10.4.07
By: Dan B.
Great thoughts.
The way I look at it, the Spirit of God is in God’s people but so is the spirit of the world. God is in the church, as messed up as it can be. That’s an exciting notion full of possibilities. My duty is to listen and look for God and the way I can tell the difference is by keeping my nose in His book.
The prideful attitude you mention I haven’t noticed so much in my pastors but in ministry volunteers. Especially in those who are relatively newer to the faith, ala 1 Timothy 3:6.
10.4.07
By: Todd
Dan, maybe you haven’t noticed this attitude in pastors because you aren’t with them at their conferences. its kinda like Starbucks employees, after the weird customer leaves they talk about how weird he is. Or its like the wives and husbands that sit around and complain about their spouses. I’m not saying all pastors do this, but some do and as Eugene points out, its terrible (just like it is terrible for wives – and husbands for that matter – to do the same).
10.5.07
By: ron cole
Todd, thanks so much for this post, extremely timely…bad week. As a lump in the pew sometimes the “potters” hands can hurt if you don’t just submit and sit on the wheel.
“Remember, the Spirit of God is among the people of God.”…it just doesn’t hover, and makes it’s nest in the pulpit. Peace…Ron+
10.6.07
By: Josh
Todd -
The way I’ve liked to think of the pastoral role is as one who has the privilege of guiding and speaking the truth of God’s word. Each week I speak or I hear someone else do so I always pray the Spirit uses our words as “the very words of God”…as Peter puts it.
The Spirit is certainly alive and working, and for that I’m grateful. It is the Spirit’s revelation and making alive the spoken words that leads the people of God into “all truth.”
It is tempting in ministry to want to force yourself…your views…your opinions on others and where they should be. After all, you have all the right intentions, right?! (I say that sarcastically). It is as much the pastors job to submit to the Spirit to speak as it is the people’s job to submit to the Spirit to listen. In doing so we can in part become whole through becoming one in the Spirit of God.
Thanks…Josh
10.9.07
By: Dan B.
You’re right Todd. I have seen it. I guess the lay leader example is foremost on my mind right now because of some things happening in our church. I’m guilty of it myself.