Comments on: ★ The American Pastor… http://www.toddhiestand.com/the-american-pastor/07/ Field Notes on Bi-Vocational Church Leadership in Suburban America Sat, 04 Feb 2012 14:10:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Matt http://www.toddhiestand.com/the-american-pastor/07/comment-page-1/#comment-121 Matt Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.toddhiestand.com/?p=78#comment-121 I'll take it one step further. Is it possible to resign as a pastor? After all, it is God, and not man, who recognizes a pastor. A degree and a contract does not a pastor make. Yes it is possible to step down, or removed from the position.. but to resign? Just musing out loud. I’ll take it one step further.

Is it possible to resign as a pastor? After all, it is God, and not man, who recognizes a pastor. A degree and a contract does not a pastor make.

Yes it is possible to step down, or removed from the position.. but to resign?

Just musing out loud.

]]> By: Different Dan http://www.toddhiestand.com/the-american-pastor/07/comment-page-1/#comment-122 Different Dan Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.toddhiestand.com/?p=78#comment-122 I often think we American Christians, as a species, are no different than our un-Christian cousins. We are just as materialistic. It's just that we buy different stuff. I find it almost always discouraging to go into a Christian bookstore because of all the self-help books, pop pscyhology and dust collectors. We approach our churches that way too. A lot of "church growth" I think isn't really growth, just trading players. And mega-churches I think function mostly as resources for the Christian consumer community and less as organisms of outreach to the unbelieving community. As for resigning as "pastor," I suppose there's being a Pastor, which would require a congregation that is paying you, and being a pastor, which I suppose means being a more mature Christian who mentors others. The former would be an office held by professionals whereas the latter could be any saint. I often think we American Christians, as a species, are no different than our un-Christian cousins. We are just as materialistic. It’s just that we buy different stuff. I find it almost always discouraging to go into a Christian bookstore because of all the self-help books, pop pscyhology and dust collectors. We approach our churches that way too. A lot of “church growth” I think isn’t really growth, just trading players. And mega-churches I think function mostly as resources for the Christian consumer community and less as organisms of outreach to the unbelieving community.

As for resigning as “pastor,” I suppose there’s being a Pastor, which would require a congregation that is paying you, and being a pastor, which I suppose means being a more mature Christian who mentors others. The former would be an office held by professionals whereas the latter could be any saint.

]]> By: Matt http://www.toddhiestand.com/the-american-pastor/07/comment-page-1/#comment-123 Matt Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.toddhiestand.com/?p=78#comment-123 And the trick is that the congregation is supposed to make pastors Pastors, rathering than forming a "search committee" and trying to hire someone who may or may not be a pastor to take the title "Pastor" when they may or may not be qualified for it (as outlined in 2 Timothy, etc...). I heard a really good message at our latest pastor/leader conference on the problem with "hired pastor" model. And the trick is that the congregation is supposed to make pastors Pastors, rathering than forming a “search committee” and trying to hire someone who may or may not be a pastor to take the title “Pastor” when they may or may not be qualified for it (as outlined in 2 Timothy, etc…).

I heard a really good message at our latest pastor/leader conference on the problem with “hired pastor” model.

]]> By: todd http://www.toddhiestand.com/the-american-pastor/07/comment-page-1/#comment-124 todd Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.toddhiestand.com/?p=78#comment-124 dan, matt, you guys are right on. the reason i am loving this book so much and his thoughts is that about 4 years ago, after 4 years of bible college, i was convinced i would never work as a "pastor" in a church. i was not sure why. i am realizing more and more every day why that was. i didn't want to be a pastor the way the traditional church had defined it. it want to pastor, shephard people. i didn't think that was possible as a pastor... now i realize the problem is not in the position of "pastor" in the truest sense of the word. it is when the pastor gives in to a view of "Pastor as CEO" that its true meaning is lost... anyways...thanks for the dialogue! i pray that i am always a "pastor" while still being a "Pastor" dan, matt, you guys are right on. the reason i am loving this book so much and his thoughts is that about 4 years ago, after 4 years of bible college, i was convinced i would never work as a “pastor” in a church. i was not sure why. i am realizing more and more every day why that was. i didn’t want to be a pastor the way the traditional church had defined it. it want to pastor, shephard people. i didn’t think that was possible as a pastor…

now i realize the problem is not in the position of “pastor” in the truest sense of the word. it is when the pastor gives in to a view of “Pastor as CEO” that its true meaning is lost…

anyways…thanks for the dialogue!

i pray that i am always a “pastor” while still being a “Pastor”

]]> By: Different Dan http://www.toddhiestand.com/the-american-pastor/07/comment-page-1/#comment-125 Different Dan Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.toddhiestand.com/?p=78#comment-125 Good discussion. Right on, Matt. I'm in a church right now that has the search committee mindset. In fact, I was on the search committee this last time around when we hired an associate pastor and a youth pastor. I was amazed at the immaturity and worldliness evident in the lives of men, and their wives, who already had been Pastors. I wouldn't have hired them to be small group leaders, let alone to help lead a congregation. Yet, they had their sheepskins and resumes, which made them "Pastors." I've talked about the idea of raising up and training leaders from within the congregation. I even from scripture proved to my associate pastor, who has a doctorate and is very proud of it, that the seminary/search committee pattern is not biblical. But so far no institutional takers. Our leadership training is poor, if not non-existent. I don't have all the answers, I'm not the pro from Dover, but as someone who wants to serve full-time, if only I could, I am frustrated by the lack of mentoring and training in my church. It forces me to consider the only avenue open to me, the "traditional" seminary, which actually would take me out of service to the church and sap my finances in the process. What a mess we've created. Good discussion.

Right on, Matt. I’m in a church right now that has the search committee mindset. In fact, I was on the search committee this last time around when we hired an associate pastor and a youth pastor. I was amazed at the immaturity and worldliness evident in the lives of men, and their wives, who already had been Pastors. I wouldn’t have hired them to be small group leaders, let alone to help lead a congregation. Yet, they had their sheepskins and resumes, which made them “Pastors.”

I’ve talked about the idea of raising up and training leaders from within the congregation. I even from scripture proved to my associate pastor, who has a doctorate and is very proud of it, that the seminary/search committee pattern is not biblical. But so far no institutional takers. Our leadership training is poor, if not non-existent.

I don’t have all the answers, I’m not the pro from Dover, but as someone who wants to serve full-time, if only I could, I am frustrated by the lack of mentoring and training in my church. It forces me to consider the only avenue open to me, the “traditional” seminary, which actually would take me out of service to the church and sap my finances in the process.

What a mess we’ve created.

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