November 30, 2009
The Weekly Rhythm of a Bi-Vocational Pastor with Three jobs and Three kids
My parents keep saying to me, “It’s a good thing you are young.” They are right and honestly I feel like I am getting older by the minute (wait, I am getting older by the minute…) But, the reality of life for us right now is that I have three jobs. My wife and I also have three kids. I guess you could say that I have a job for each kid. I’ll say this right up front: this is probably not a sustainable life-style for too much longer. But it is where God has us and we have chosen to place ourselves here for this moment in our lives.
Right now I serve as the Lead Pastor at The Well. I am running my own freelance webdesign company called 343design and I am also working 20 hours a week in the mornings at my local Starbucks.
My role at The Well consists of being the main visionary and key leader at the church. My role revolves mostly around keeping us on mission, keeping us focused on our goals as a community and leading our Ministry Leadership Team. In addition to the regular admin tasks of pastoring, I teach about twice a month. I also end up spending a lot of time meeting with people inside and outside of our church. My primary leadership gift from Eph. 4 is “Apostolic” and thankfully the church has given me a lot of room to express that freely.
In 2004 I quit my job at Starbucks (the first time i worked there) and ventured off into the world of webdesign. I had spent the previous few years teaching myself through designing (and re-designing) my blog. I also got some good experience doing some work for The Well’s website. In my learning process I had some great mentors and was comfortable enough to try and see if I could make it going out on my own. This has proven to be a good way to be a “tent-maker” even though it has also been challenging at times. Time and time again God has given me the contact I needed to make the sale that would make it possible for us to make our payments for the last 5 years.
In June of this year, we decided it would be best for me to go back to Starbucks again because we needed the extra cash and the extra-good (is that a word?) health benefits that Starbucks offers. Up until then the church had been covering our health insurance but the coverage we could get from starbucks was much better. Also we needed the extra cash from hourly wages. Thankfully, I was able to work a pretty good schedule where I only work weekdays, I only open and I never work past 11 am. In fact, many days I get off as early as 9:00am. Of course, this means I have to be up at around 4:30am everyday, but after a while you get used to that.
So, with these three jobs + a family my life rhythm looks something like this:
Monday – Friday mornings I spend my mornings steaming milk and taking orders in the drive thru at my starbucks. Like I said, I only open so that means I have to be at the story by 5. But, most days I am out by 9am. The weeks that I only work four days a week, I get of a bit later. Basically, I need to average about 20 hours a week in order to qualify for the benefits.
I spend Monday and Tuesday afternoons concentrating on my 343design needs. This means I usually have room for two main clients at a time + support needs for current clients. I then use Saturday mornings (or afternoons when the kids are sleeping) to tie up loose ends from the week. This usually works out well until I have a project that needs attention during the rest of the week. If I can, I try and let those needs ride till Saturday. But sometimes I need to spend some time during the day or even in the evening to care of that. Of course, by the time evening rolls around, I’m pretty tired so evenings aren’t very productive for me anymore.
I then concentrate on church work on Wednesdays – Friday afternoons. This means that at least one of those days is usually meeting heavy. Recently I’ve been using Wednesdays and Thursday’s for that and then trying to let Friday be a day where I finish my sermon or spend some time studying/planning. On the weeks that I preach, I tend to try and have less meetings so that I can spend more time studying. Also, when I do preach I try and get the text in front of me on Monday sometime so that I can spend the week working with the text bouncing around in my head. I have found that this is some of my most important and helpful sermon prep time. This way I get to live the text instead of just studying it.
I try to be home by around 5:30 or 6:00 so that I can be in time for dinner with my family. After dinner these days means wrestling with the boys and finishing up Cole’s homework. We do our best to get the boys in bed by 8:00 if possible. If they are in bed any late than this, it means bad things for the next day. This usually means by 8:30 or 9:00 Melanie and I are able to spend the rest of the night cleaning up, relaxing, reading or watching some TV. This is pretty much every evening of the week unless its Monday or Wednesday. Every other Monday night Melanie goes and knits with some women from the church and then each Wednesday I c0-lead our church’s midweek bible study.
One of the things I’ve learned in the past few years is that when you have kids, it changes everything. Like it or not, our lives revolve around loving and caring for these three small lives. I’m so thankful that these four wonderful individuals are the people that God has given to me to journey through the second half of my life. Our challenge as a parents is to find ways to give time and selves away to others, especially those less fortunate than us, and let the gospel direct the this journey we are on together. But, that’s another blog post for another time.
Why do I share all this? It’s not for you to feel sorry for me. Remember, my wife and I have chosen this way of life. I tell people all the time that I would rather serve part-time at The Well the way we do then full-time at an established church where I am not able to live out my calling as freely as I do. The Well is a fantastic community and Melanie and I feel such freedom to be ourselves. We don’t have any need to put on some kind of fake “Pastor Family” faces. This is not only great for us, but it is also great for our kids.
Rather, I share this because there is a new reality for those of us who feel called to plant churches. Many students graduate from Seminary expecting to be able to get a full-time job in a church or find full-time funding to start a church plant. Sorry folks, but while those days are not gone, they are definitely changing. If you are passionate about church planting and/or starting something new, you have to be face the reality that you might have to take a different approach to supporting yourself.
Also, I think my story is a good example of why it is important those who are called to serve the church to have other skills that will allow them to make an income. I have been blessed to have developed a skill that gives me a pretty decent income (no, I’m not talking about Starbucks). I don’t make a ton of money and freelancing has its ups and downs. But, I know too many ministers who can’t imagine how they would make a living if they couldn’t be employed by the church. To me, that is a scary place to be. Nobody wants to be making decisions how to lead based on the welfare of their family. But frankly, far too often organizational decisions are made in ways that ensures the paycheck of the employee before the success of the mission. And, I think this happens in businesses as well as churches.
Okay, that’s probably enough for now. There is so much more to say about this whole topic. There are positives and negatives to this kind of approach for pastoral leadership. Maybe I’ll get into those at a later date.
11.30.09
By: Geoff Holsclaw
Good work, todd. I remember those days of waking up at 4am to shuffle off to the ‘bucks. but I kinda liked working 5 hours, and then still getting to the rest of the day at 10am.
And you are definitely right that we need to set different expectations about what life pastoring looks like. Bi-vocational pastors in missional church are pioneers, and their lives will reflect that.
may Christ strengthen you in all you do, and may he bless all that you put your hand to.
peace,
geoff
11.30.09
By: Adam Lehman
as a guy who is in a full-time church gig, that schedule is SO attractive to me.
11.30.09
By: Geoff Holsclaw
why is that, adam?
11.30.09
By: Brad Jackson
Great post…you guys are constantly on our hearts and minds.
11.30.09
By: Tim
The Brad Jackson? Hey good to see you on here, hope all is well.
Appreciated the post Todd. I am among those that worry about you but after reading the post, I’m like, “Yeah, dude’s got it together.”
Seriously, I know you mentioned you’re not sure how long you could keep this going like this, as a brother, I am glad to read your love for your family and your love for your church. Even more so, I think you offer a healthy picture of the church-planting life style.
Still praying for this season and the next for the Hiestands and God’s strength to you, Melanie and the kids til then.
11.30.09
By: living a double life
[...] I discovered that my good friend Todd Hiestand just wrote that blog post about his own life — The Rhythm of a Bi-Vocational Pastor with Three Jobs and Three Kids. Todd was doing double duty long before I was, and offered both inspiration and encouragement as I [...]
11.30.09
By: john chandler
Great thoughts my friend.
11.30.09
By: Thomas E. Ward
We need more people writing about this topic, Todd. Thank you.
When I was in the midst of working three jobs I had no time to reflect on the highs and lows of being tri-vocational. I was just trying to keep all the plates spinning. I’m glad you’re able to provide us with some field notes from the frontlines.
Love you, bro.
Tom
11.30.09
By: Bret Wells
Todd,
I’m in this boat with you, and the question on my mind is, “just how long is this rhythm sustainable? And what happens when it isn’t anymore?”
Chris, my co-conspirator at Christ Journey (christjourneylife.com), and I are both working multiple jobs to make ends meet – and both our families have been blessed with 3 kids as well. Its really too much, but we are willing to do whatever it takes to live into this calling. Chris has been partially supported by the Christ Journey community and I’ve been primarily depending on individually raised support. I’m working toward some stuff that will hopefully get me self-supporting in a few years (2-3ish?)…but man those years look long right now.
I pray that healthy rhythms will be cultivated in your household and solicit prayers for the same in ours. And yet, I also rejoice because the Kingdom of God is at hand and we have been blessed to be caught up in its advance, introducing its ethos to our neighborhoods and communities. That’s a treasure worth selling all you have to procure.
11.30.09
By: Ben Sternke
This is so helpful, Todd. Seeing other people’s rhythms really helps me think through mine. Thanks.
11.30.09
By: Todd
Everyone, thanks for your feedback so far. I was nervous to put this out there because I don’t want to assume that this is the more spiritual way or the right way to do it.
I do actually still think there is a place for full-time vocational ministry. for me, that time is not now. I’m working on a follow-up post or two on why we chose this way and also the positives and negatives that come with this choice as well.
but thanks again for the encouragement and feedback…
11.30.09
By: Josh Frank
Todd – thanks so much for this posting. It is great to get even the tiniest glimpse into how you arrange your life. While I am working in full-time Youth Ministry and trying to build my freelance client base on the side, it is great to reflect on how others manage multiple jobs that include a paid ministry position.
I look forward to hearing you expand on this. And, if there are others reading comments who want to connect around these topics, I would love to trade messages by Facebook, Twitter, or e-mail.
11.30.09
By: Tim Thompson
Todd – I echo the comments above, grateful for your transparency.
I also wonder about sustainability, but from a different angle. If this is what it takes to provide leadership to a missional community, then is the model itself sustainable for the Church?
I’ve mulled this over quite a bit and my thinking has been strongly challenged by the simple/organic/house church expressions that I’ve encountered. It’s left me wondering if we’re encountering a stumbling block in our assumption that we have to offer a large group gathering every week. I do think people should be gathering weekly, but that could be in the home/small groups. But what if the larger community gathered, say, monthly for something more like a traditional worship service with sermon, liturgy, music etc.?
So my question to you is this: if your community went to a monthly gathering, would that make enough difference in the workload that your current tri-vocational + family lifestyle would be sustainable over the long haul?
12.1.09
By: Chris
Todd – Great post. Actually, I was about to email it to Bret when I saw that he had already commented. As he mentioned, we are both wrestling with and adjusting to much of what you reveal in the post.
Could you briefly share a story or two of missional opportunities that have flowed out of your web design and sbux work that may not have happened otherwise?
12.1.09
By: ed cyzewski
Thanks for this Todd. I think this is a much-needed, honest post explaining what ministry will look like for many of us. It brings up some interesting issues as well.
For starters, those thinking of seminary should consider having a possibly marketable major, while seminaries will need to think of training leaders to juggle several jobs at once while delegating, delegating, delegating.
12.2.09
By: Tim Loesch
Todd, thanks for giving us a peak into your life. It’s interesting to me because I was tri-vocational for about two years myself – not because I had to as much as I wanted to. Part-time ministry was one of the vocations, and I recently stepped down from it and stuck with being bi (!). Let’s face it, there is no such thing as part-time ministry, it is full time plus some. While I loved the job I had working for the church, ministry as a volunteer has become quite exciting, I feel like I more effective and less stressful by far.
It’s funny because I just spoke about this area last Sunday in my church. Particularly the lesson from Luke 10 where Martha so busily worries about serving, while Mary chose what is better by sitting at the feet of Jesus. We often get the two greatest commandments mixed up when we love and serve our neighbor (#2) and love God second (#1). We simply can’t give God to others if we are not regularly getting Him into ourselves.
Not trying to suggest anything by any means! Just chiming in on the fact that we sometimes get so busy doing things for God, we don’t do enough with Him. I was at that place which was exhausting and empty and now am finding great contentment in getting the commandments in the correct order!
12.2.09
By: Todd
Tim (Thompson), good question about sustainability. What i didn’t specify in my post is that my having three jobs is the thing that isn’t really sustainable. This is a temporary approach we’re taking here because of our need for some extra income due to having a baby and the health benefits that came along with the job.
I’ve actually been doing the bi-vocational thing for a while now (9 years). And, I think that one could argue that its actually more sustainable from a mission standpoint. I say this because in my community, the outworking of the mission doesn’t rise and fall on me. I’m excited to be able to say that a LOT of the work of our church takes place without me involved directly. Of course, this is not to say that I am not needed but, I’m open to that being the case one day… :)
I’m working on a post or two on why we have chosen this approach at The Well. The fact is, we have two part-time pastors. It would be possible for us to just have one full-timer but I don’t feel that would be the most healthy and, dare I say, sustainable, approach at this time.
12.2.09
By: the rhythm of a double life
[...] On my trip to New York in October, I was sitting in a restaurant on the Upper West Side with Michael Rudzena, Ben Sternke, and Jon Tyson. We got into a discussion on what our typical weekly schedules look like. It was a helpful conversation, and I was reminded of it earlier this week as Todd shared his tri-vocational schedule. [...]
12.2.09
By: Jason Coker
Thanks for being so transparent Todd. I can definitely relate.
One of the things I find challenging and incredibly valuable is that for the first time in my ministry life I can relate to the practical struggles of people’ lives. Being in the same vocational boat ha given me a place of real authenticity among them, and has leveled the playing field for leadership and ministry in our church. For all the frustrations, my wife and I really enjoy that freedom.
12.3.09
By: Rev Gus
Hi there,
I am a bivo pastor leading a church, running the dept of a law firm, and with three kids and I thought I was busy!!
If you want to see something I wrote on balance and sustainability, see http://bit.ly/1TCyeb.
Blessings to you.
Gus Macaulay,
Glasgow, Scotland.
12.5.09
By: David Fitch
Hey Todd,
great …important … thank-you. Could you address sometime a.) whether you could ever do this alone? I think this pace (and I would recommend bi-voc. versus tri-voc.) is sustainable if you’re doing it with other bi-voc leaders alongside, and b.) how and when your church pays bi-voc pastors? how much financial aide is too much too little etc. We’re going throug some of these issues at LOV. Thanks for leading on this discussion!!
12.5.09
By: JMorrow
Todd,
Thanks for being so honest and open with this post. As someone who is looking to go back to seminary soon and definitely sees bi-voc ministry in my future (as my wife sees it in hers as well) it is soo helpful to actually have a glimpse of what it feels like day-to-day. I’d also be interested in your answers to David’s questions as we are looking at doing a church plant one day with the bi-voc pastors model. Blessings in this season for you and your family.
01.18.10
By: Todd Hiestand » Bi-Vocational Pastors » Missional Living in Suburban America
[...] The Weekly Rhythm of a Bi-Vocational Pastor with Three Jobs and Three Kids [...]
03.11.10
By: Scott Leary
Hey Todd,
Just found this post. Thanks for putting it up there. You have given insight as I serve a church planter and how I can help. I think bi-vocational maybe the way I go in ministry. I feel once I pull out of the secular workforce and into ministry, if that happens, I will lose my God-given influence.
Thanks man!
02.4.11
By: Mark W. Woodruff, MD
I was cleaning up old email and this was sent to me by a church planting friend who has planted 4 churches in 2 countries over the last 20 years.
I myself finished my medical training in 1989 having been an elder and assistant pastor and built a church planting team in parallel from 1981-89. We moved to Omaha, NE where I started working full time as a doctor and quickly began to church plant. After 3 years in the Air Force we had established a leadership team(3 elders but unfortunately only me as pastor)and I moved to working part time in medicine(ED shifts, usually 2 12 hr shifts a week, including some nights).
Over the subsequent decade I continued this bivocational lifestyle while my children went from ages 11/7/5 to 21/17/15. The benefits of the ED were short hours but the disadvantages were increased stress and shift work.
At that point I had to make a change in my medical career and joined and subsequently bought into a medical practice. As that practice built it became increasingly obvious that I could not do a 60+ hour a week job and continue to pastor a church of about 75 people. After a 3 month sabbatical during which I sought the Lord I turned the church over to the other two elders and became “pastor emeritus”.
Here’s is what I learned about bivocational ministry:
1. You must be truly part time in both(or all 3 in your case): you can’t expect to work 80 hrs a week at 2 full time jobs, maintain your health and build your family(which is your primary calling/ministry in this life stage);
2. You must have a Sabbath!!!!!!! God established the Sabbath, and we neglect it at our own peril. I don’t know how to put this any stronger: I believe this is the primary cause of burnout, not working too many hours or church problems or anything else. That day must be a day refreshment, deep communion with God and rejuvenation(see Bill Hybels’ sermon tape: “Gifts, Gauges and Playing Games” about maintaining/filling your emotional tank; on my best days I would play some golf, read, nap, study just for the sake of studying, not sermon prep; also write, journal, ponder, think, fellowship with my wife and children, and share my heart with them; but I was not faithful to this, especially after I went back into family medicine and a full time job;
3. You must fight ministry maintenance at every turn; the benefit of newer church models is less maintenance, but you still have to delegate; you should never be doing cleanup,not because its beneath you but because others can do it and they can’t do what you are supposed to be dong when you are doing it!
4. You have to avoid the Superman syndrome–”I’ll do it”; think rigorously about whether “it” is in your calling/role/job description;
5. You must have as clear a delineation of your role/responsibilities as possible; I believe there are 3 primary leadership responsibilities in the church: a. vision casting and mission progression(seeing, articulating the vision and moving people to pursue it), b. pastoral care of the people, c. outreach leadership(leading others as they outreach, serve, care for and incorporate new lives into the Body of Christ). Discipleship is involved in the last two. If you have a 40 hour a week job(s) you will be lucky to do one of those well; at 20 hours a week you can probably do 2; to do all 3 you have to be fulltime(and it makes much more sense to split these tasks 2 or 3 ways anyway–there is quantitative research out of Fuller that shows 2 planters working half time will be more effective than one working fulltime); of note, anything not directly included in the above 3 is the responsibility of the deaconate, leading the people in doing he work of the church; also of note, much of this doesn’t fit the American culture nor the American church model;
6. You must have a pastor’s heart, particularly toward your wife and children; you don’t have to pastor(provide pastoral care) for the church, but you must have a pastor’s heart toward them, or you become a hireling; you must actually pastor your family, and given your busy schedule and your lifestyle, I recommend you be intentional in this(my wife used to sit down for an evening 2-3 times a year, discuss our children individually, talk about our vision for them, and write down a goal for each of them in the following three areas: body, soul and spirit; doing this for them at a young age when its easier incorporated it into our thinking when they were older, so it became almost automatic;
7. You must live a fairly spartan lifestyle; the amount of discipline in terms of exercise, rest, healthy eating(not gaining weight over time)does not leave a lot of time for secular pursuits(TV, following college/pro sports, hobbies–except as it relates to #2 above). One of my mistakes was thinking I “deserved” to watch football on Sunday afternoons(and Monday nights, and Saturday afternoons, etc) because I had “worked so hard”; this is unfair but an elite athlete gives up a lot of things his friends do because he’s “in training”; you are perpetually “in training”;
8. You must have focused one on one time with your wife, where you can shut out the other aspects of your life and focus on her; I recommend a 3 day weekend every quarter if possible; if you can’t afford to go anywhere, see if someone will take your kids(individually or corporately, you can return the favor) and see if anyone you know has a lodge/cabin/vacation home you could use for a weekend; don’t hesitate to talk to faithful pastors of larger churches who may be aware of this kind of thing and will be willing to share it with you;
9. You must have your own pastor/mentor; whether this is someone local with whom you develop an intimate relationship, or a denominational leader(if you are part of one) or another pastor who is translocal, you must have someone with whom you can be transparent, and it can’t be your copastor(s);
10. You must have plenty of grace for yourself and your limitations and the limitations of your lifestyle; God gives grace for your calling, but that grace is for you doing it in your weakness, not in perfection(ism).
These are the lessons I learned over more than 20 years of bivocational ministry.
I am not a prophet, but I do believe that full time paid ministry will ultimately disappear; it may hold on for a long time in the US, but it is already not part of the picture in much of the rest of the world; the American Church model of the 20th century is not sustainable in the 21st, for a variety of reasons.
02.4.11
By: Joe Holbrook
good points Mark, especially about the 20th century model of church life
06.7.11
By: Tim Dahl
Todd,
In your opinion, which jobs/occupations work best in the bi-vocational lifestyle?
My smartypants answer is – “the one you can get.” But, in all seriousness, are there some that are more conducive to ministry than others?
Thanks,
Tim Dahl