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	<title>Comments on: &#9733; The Weekly Rhythm of a Bi-Vocational Pastor with Three jobs and Three kids</title>
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	<link>http://www.toddhiestand.com/the-rhythm-of-a-bi-vocational-pastor-with-three-jobs-and-three-kids/11/</link>
	<description>Field Notes on Bi-Vocational Church Leadership in Suburban America</description>
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		<title>By: Tim Dahl</title>
		<link>http://www.toddhiestand.com/the-rhythm-of-a-bi-vocational-pastor-with-three-jobs-and-three-kids/11/comment-page-1/#comment-50720</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Dahl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2011 20:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toddhiestand.com/?p=1947#comment-50720</guid>
		<description>Todd,

In your opinion, which jobs/occupations work best in the bi-vocational lifestyle?

My smartypants answer is - &quot;the one you can get.&quot; But, in all seriousness, are there some that are more conducive to ministry than others?

Thanks,

Tim Dahl</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Todd,</p>
<p>In your opinion, which jobs/occupations work best in the bi-vocational lifestyle?</p>
<p>My smartypants answer is &#8211; &#8220;the one you can get.&#8221; But, in all seriousness, are there some that are more conducive to ministry than others?</p>
<p>Thanks,</p>
<p>Tim Dahl</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Holbrook</title>
		<link>http://www.toddhiestand.com/the-rhythm-of-a-bi-vocational-pastor-with-three-jobs-and-three-kids/11/comment-page-1/#comment-50360</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Holbrook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Feb 2011 03:35:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toddhiestand.com/?p=1947#comment-50360</guid>
		<description>good points Mark, especially about the 20th century model of church life</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>good points Mark, especially about the 20th century model of church life</p>
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		<title>By: Mark W. Woodruff, MD</title>
		<link>http://www.toddhiestand.com/the-rhythm-of-a-bi-vocational-pastor-with-three-jobs-and-three-kids/11/comment-page-1/#comment-50359</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark W. Woodruff, MD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Feb 2011 01:56:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toddhiestand.com/?p=1947#comment-50359</guid>
		<description>I was cleaning up old email and this was sent to me by a church planting friend who has planted 4 churches in 2 countries over the last 20 years.

I myself finished my medical training in 1989 having been an elder and assistant pastor and built a church planting team in parallel from 1981-89. We moved to Omaha, NE where I started working full time as a doctor and quickly began to church plant. After 3 years in the Air Force we had established a leadership team(3 elders but unfortunately only me as pastor)and I moved to working part time in medicine(ED shifts, usually 2 12 hr shifts a week, including some nights).

Over the subsequent decade I continued this bivocational lifestyle while my children went from ages 11/7/5 to 21/17/15. The benefits of the ED were short hours but the disadvantages were increased stress and shift work.

At that point I had to make a change in my medical career and joined and subsequently bought into a medical practice. As that practice built it became increasingly obvious that I could not do a 60+ hour a week job and continue to pastor a church of about 75 people. After a 3 month sabbatical during which I sought the Lord I turned the church over to the other two elders and became &quot;pastor emeritus&quot;. 

Here&#039;s is what I learned about bivocational ministry:

1. You must be truly part time in both(or all 3 in your case): you can&#039;t expect to work 80 hrs a week at 2 full time jobs, maintain your health and build your family(which is your primary calling/ministry in this life stage);
2. You must have a Sabbath!!!!!!! God established the Sabbath, and we neglect it at our own peril. I don&#039;t know how to put this any stronger: I believe this is the primary cause of burnout, not working too many hours or church problems or anything else. That day must be a day refreshment, deep communion with God and rejuvenation(see Bill Hybels&#039; sermon tape: &quot;Gifts, Gauges and Playing Games&quot; about maintaining/filling your emotional tank; on my best days I would play some golf, read, nap, study just for the sake of studying, not sermon prep; also write, journal, ponder, think, fellowship with my wife and children, and share my heart with them; but I was not faithful to this, especially after I went back into family medicine and a full time job;
3. You must fight ministry maintenance at every turn; the benefit of newer church models is less maintenance, but you still have to delegate; you should never be doing cleanup,not because its beneath you but because others can do it and they can&#039;t do what you are supposed to be dong when you are doing it!
4. You have to avoid the Superman syndrome--&quot;I&#039;ll do it&quot;; think rigorously about whether &quot;it&quot; is in your calling/role/job description;
5. You must have as clear a delineation of your role/responsibilities as possible; I believe there are 3 primary leadership responsibilities in the church: a. vision casting and mission progression(seeing, articulating the vision and moving people to pursue it), b. pastoral care of the people, c. outreach leadership(leading others as they outreach, serve, care for and incorporate new lives into the Body of Christ). Discipleship is involved in the last two. If you have a 40 hour a week job(s) you will be lucky to do one of those well; at 20 hours a week you can probably do 2; to do all 3 you have to be fulltime(and it makes much more sense to split these tasks 2 or 3 ways anyway--there is quantitative research out of Fuller that shows 2 planters working half time will be more effective than one working fulltime); of note, anything not directly included in the above 3 is the responsibility of the deaconate, leading the people in doing he work of the church; also of note, much of this doesn&#039;t fit the American culture nor the American church model;
6. You must have a pastor&#039;s heart, particularly toward your wife and children; you don&#039;t have to pastor(provide pastoral care) for the church, but you must have a pastor&#039;s heart toward them, or you become a hireling; you must actually pastor your family, and given your busy schedule and your lifestyle, I recommend you be intentional in this(my wife used to sit down for an evening 2-3 times a year, discuss our children individually, talk about our vision for them, and write down a goal for each of them in the following three areas: body, soul and spirit; doing this for them at a young age when its easier incorporated it into our thinking when they were older, so it became almost automatic;
7. You must live a fairly spartan lifestyle; the amount of discipline in terms of exercise, rest, healthy eating(not gaining weight over time)does not leave a lot of time for secular pursuits(TV, following college/pro sports, hobbies--except as it relates to #2 above). One of my mistakes was thinking I &quot;deserved&quot; to watch football on Sunday afternoons(and Monday nights, and Saturday afternoons, etc) because I had &quot;worked so hard&quot;; this is unfair but an elite athlete gives up a lot of things his friends do because he&#039;s &quot;in training&quot;; you are perpetually &quot;in training&quot;;
8. You must have focused one on one time with your wife, where you can shut out the other aspects of your life and focus on her; I recommend a 3 day weekend every quarter if possible; if you can&#039;t afford to go anywhere, see if someone will take your kids(individually or corporately, you can return the favor) and see if anyone you know has a lodge/cabin/vacation home you could use for a weekend; don&#039;t hesitate to talk to faithful pastors of larger churches who may be aware of this kind of thing and will be willing to share it with you;
9. You must have your own pastor/mentor; whether this is someone local with whom you develop an intimate relationship, or a denominational leader(if you are part of one) or another pastor who is translocal, you must have someone with whom you can be transparent, and it can&#039;t be your copastor(s);
10. You must have plenty of grace for yourself and your limitations and the limitations of your lifestyle; God gives grace for your calling, but that grace is for you doing it in your weakness, not in perfection(ism).

These are the lessons I learned over more than 20 years of bivocational ministry.

I am not a prophet, but I do believe that full time paid ministry will ultimately disappear; it may hold on for a long time in the US, but it is already not part of the picture in much of the rest of the world; the American Church model of the 20th century is not sustainable in the 21st, for a variety of reasons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was cleaning up old email and this was sent to me by a church planting friend who has planted 4 churches in 2 countries over the last 20 years.</p>
<p>I myself finished my medical training in 1989 having been an elder and assistant pastor and built a church planting team in parallel from 1981-89. We moved to Omaha, NE where I started working full time as a doctor and quickly began to church plant. After 3 years in the Air Force we had established a leadership team(3 elders but unfortunately only me as pastor)and I moved to working part time in medicine(ED shifts, usually 2 12 hr shifts a week, including some nights).</p>
<p>Over the subsequent decade I continued this bivocational lifestyle while my children went from ages 11/7/5 to 21/17/15. The benefits of the ED were short hours but the disadvantages were increased stress and shift work.</p>
<p>At that point I had to make a change in my medical career and joined and subsequently bought into a medical practice. As that practice built it became increasingly obvious that I could not do a 60+ hour a week job and continue to pastor a church of about 75 people. After a 3 month sabbatical during which I sought the Lord I turned the church over to the other two elders and became &#8220;pastor emeritus&#8221;. </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s is what I learned about bivocational ministry:</p>
<p>1. You must be truly part time in both(or all 3 in your case): you can&#8217;t expect to work 80 hrs a week at 2 full time jobs, maintain your health and build your family(which is your primary calling/ministry in this life stage);<br />
2. You must have a Sabbath!!!!!!! God established the Sabbath, and we neglect it at our own peril. I don&#8217;t know how to put this any stronger: I believe this is the primary cause of burnout, not working too many hours or church problems or anything else. That day must be a day refreshment, deep communion with God and rejuvenation(see Bill Hybels&#8217; sermon tape: &#8220;Gifts, Gauges and Playing Games&#8221; about maintaining/filling your emotional tank; on my best days I would play some golf, read, nap, study just for the sake of studying, not sermon prep; also write, journal, ponder, think, fellowship with my wife and children, and share my heart with them; but I was not faithful to this, especially after I went back into family medicine and a full time job;<br />
3. You must fight ministry maintenance at every turn; the benefit of newer church models is less maintenance, but you still have to delegate; you should never be doing cleanup,not because its beneath you but because others can do it and they can&#8217;t do what you are supposed to be dong when you are doing it!<br />
4. You have to avoid the Superman syndrome&#8211;&#8221;I&#8217;ll do it&#8221;; think rigorously about whether &#8220;it&#8221; is in your calling/role/job description;<br />
5. You must have as clear a delineation of your role/responsibilities as possible; I believe there are 3 primary leadership responsibilities in the church: a. vision casting and mission progression(seeing, articulating the vision and moving people to pursue it), b. pastoral care of the people, c. outreach leadership(leading others as they outreach, serve, care for and incorporate new lives into the Body of Christ). Discipleship is involved in the last two. If you have a 40 hour a week job(s) you will be lucky to do one of those well; at 20 hours a week you can probably do 2; to do all 3 you have to be fulltime(and it makes much more sense to split these tasks 2 or 3 ways anyway&#8211;there is quantitative research out of Fuller that shows 2 planters working half time will be more effective than one working fulltime); of note, anything not directly included in the above 3 is the responsibility of the deaconate, leading the people in doing he work of the church; also of note, much of this doesn&#8217;t fit the American culture nor the American church model;<br />
6. You must have a pastor&#8217;s heart, particularly toward your wife and children; you don&#8217;t have to pastor(provide pastoral care) for the church, but you must have a pastor&#8217;s heart toward them, or you become a hireling; you must actually pastor your family, and given your busy schedule and your lifestyle, I recommend you be intentional in this(my wife used to sit down for an evening 2-3 times a year, discuss our children individually, talk about our vision for them, and write down a goal for each of them in the following three areas: body, soul and spirit; doing this for them at a young age when its easier incorporated it into our thinking when they were older, so it became almost automatic;<br />
7. You must live a fairly spartan lifestyle; the amount of discipline in terms of exercise, rest, healthy eating(not gaining weight over time)does not leave a lot of time for secular pursuits(TV, following college/pro sports, hobbies&#8211;except as it relates to #2 above). One of my mistakes was thinking I &#8220;deserved&#8221; to watch football on Sunday afternoons(and Monday nights, and Saturday afternoons, etc) because I had &#8220;worked so hard&#8221;; this is unfair but an elite athlete gives up a lot of things his friends do because he&#8217;s &#8220;in training&#8221;; you are perpetually &#8220;in training&#8221;;<br />
8. You must have focused one on one time with your wife, where you can shut out the other aspects of your life and focus on her; I recommend a 3 day weekend every quarter if possible; if you can&#8217;t afford to go anywhere, see if someone will take your kids(individually or corporately, you can return the favor) and see if anyone you know has a lodge/cabin/vacation home you could use for a weekend; don&#8217;t hesitate to talk to faithful pastors of larger churches who may be aware of this kind of thing and will be willing to share it with you;<br />
9. You must have your own pastor/mentor; whether this is someone local with whom you develop an intimate relationship, or a denominational leader(if you are part of one) or another pastor who is translocal, you must have someone with whom you can be transparent, and it can&#8217;t be your copastor(s);<br />
10. You must have plenty of grace for yourself and your limitations and the limitations of your lifestyle; God gives grace for your calling, but that grace is for you doing it in your weakness, not in perfection(ism).</p>
<p>These are the lessons I learned over more than 20 years of bivocational ministry.</p>
<p>I am not a prophet, but I do believe that full time paid ministry will ultimately disappear; it may hold on for a long time in the US, but it is already not part of the picture in much of the rest of the world; the American Church model of the 20th century is not sustainable in the 21st, for a variety of reasons.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Leary</title>
		<link>http://www.toddhiestand.com/the-rhythm-of-a-bi-vocational-pastor-with-three-jobs-and-three-kids/11/comment-page-1/#comment-49775</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Leary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toddhiestand.com/?p=1947#comment-49775</guid>
		<description>Hey Todd, 
Just found this post.  Thanks for putting it up there. You have given insight as I serve a church planter and how I can help.  I think bi-vocational maybe the way I go in ministry.  I feel once I pull out of the secular workforce and into ministry, if that happens, I will lose my God-given influence.
Thanks man!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Todd,<br />
Just found this post.  Thanks for putting it up there. You have given insight as I serve a church planter and how I can help.  I think bi-vocational maybe the way I go in ministry.  I feel once I pull out of the secular workforce and into ministry, if that happens, I will lose my God-given influence.<br />
Thanks man!</p>
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		<title>By: Todd Hiestand &#187; Bi-Vocational Pastors &#187; Missional Living in Suburban America</title>
		<link>http://www.toddhiestand.com/the-rhythm-of-a-bi-vocational-pastor-with-three-jobs-and-three-kids/11/comment-page-1/#comment-49417</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd Hiestand &#187; Bi-Vocational Pastors &#187; Missional Living in Suburban America</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 13:32:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toddhiestand.com/?p=1947#comment-49417</guid>
		<description>[...] The Weekly Rhythm of a Bi-Vocational Pastor with Three Jobs and Three Kids [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Weekly Rhythm of a Bi-Vocational Pastor with Three Jobs and Three Kids [...]</p>
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		<title>By: JMorrow</title>
		<link>http://www.toddhiestand.com/the-rhythm-of-a-bi-vocational-pastor-with-three-jobs-and-three-kids/11/comment-page-1/#comment-49316</link>
		<dc:creator>JMorrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 21:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toddhiestand.com/?p=1947#comment-49316</guid>
		<description>Todd,

Thanks for being so honest and open with this post.  As someone who is looking to go back to seminary soon and definitely sees bi-voc ministry in my future (as my wife sees it in hers as well) it is soo helpful to actually have a glimpse of what it feels like day-to-day.  I&#039;d also be interested in your answers to David&#039;s questions as we are looking at doing a church plant one day with the bi-voc pastors model.  Blessings in this season for you and your family.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Todd,</p>
<p>Thanks for being so honest and open with this post.  As someone who is looking to go back to seminary soon and definitely sees bi-voc ministry in my future (as my wife sees it in hers as well) it is soo helpful to actually have a glimpse of what it feels like day-to-day.  I&#8217;d also be interested in your answers to David&#8217;s questions as we are looking at doing a church plant one day with the bi-voc pastors model.  Blessings in this season for you and your family.</p>
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		<title>By: David Fitch</title>
		<link>http://www.toddhiestand.com/the-rhythm-of-a-bi-vocational-pastor-with-three-jobs-and-three-kids/11/comment-page-1/#comment-49313</link>
		<dc:creator>David Fitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 14:15:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toddhiestand.com/?p=1947#comment-49313</guid>
		<description>Hey Todd,
great ...important ... thank-you. Could you address sometime a.) whether you could ever do this alone? I think this pace (and I would recommend bi-voc. versus tri-voc.) is sustainable if you&#039;re doing it with other bi-voc leaders alongside, and b.) how and when your church pays bi-voc pastors? how much financial aide is too much too little etc. We&#039;re going throug some of these issues at LOV. Thanks for leading on this discussion!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Todd,<br />
great &#8230;important &#8230; thank-you. Could you address sometime a.) whether you could ever do this alone? I think this pace (and I would recommend bi-voc. versus tri-voc.) is sustainable if you&#8217;re doing it with other bi-voc leaders alongside, and b.) how and when your church pays bi-voc pastors? how much financial aide is too much too little etc. We&#8217;re going throug some of these issues at LOV. Thanks for leading on this discussion!!</p>
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		<title>By: Rev Gus</title>
		<link>http://www.toddhiestand.com/the-rhythm-of-a-bi-vocational-pastor-with-three-jobs-and-three-kids/11/comment-page-1/#comment-49300</link>
		<dc:creator>Rev Gus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 13:19:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toddhiestand.com/?p=1947#comment-49300</guid>
		<description>Hi there,

I am a bivo pastor leading a church, running the dept of a law firm, and with three kids and I thought I was busy!!

If you want to see something I wrote on balance and sustainability, see http://bit.ly/1TCyeb.

Blessings to you.

Gus Macaulay,
Glasgow, Scotland.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi there,</p>
<p>I am a bivo pastor leading a church, running the dept of a law firm, and with three kids and I thought I was busy!!</p>
<p>If you want to see something I wrote on balance and sustainability, see <a href="http://bit.ly/1TCyeb" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/1TCyeb</a>.</p>
<p>Blessings to you.</p>
<p>Gus Macaulay,<br />
Glasgow, Scotland.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Coker</title>
		<link>http://www.toddhiestand.com/the-rhythm-of-a-bi-vocational-pastor-with-three-jobs-and-three-kids/11/comment-page-1/#comment-49293</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Coker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 21:25:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toddhiestand.com/?p=1947#comment-49293</guid>
		<description>Thanks for being so transparent Todd. I can definitely relate. 

One of the things I find challenging and incredibly valuable is that for the first time in my ministry life I can relate to the practical struggles of people&#039; lives. Being in the same vocational boat ha given me a place of real authenticity among them, and has leveled the playing field for leadership and ministry in our church. For all the frustrations, my wife and I really enjoy that freedom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for being so transparent Todd. I can definitely relate. </p>
<p>One of the things I find challenging and incredibly valuable is that for the first time in my ministry life I can relate to the practical struggles of people&#8217; lives. Being in the same vocational boat ha given me a place of real authenticity among them, and has leveled the playing field for leadership and ministry in our church. For all the frustrations, my wife and I really enjoy that freedom.</p>
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		<title>By: the rhythm of a double life</title>
		<link>http://www.toddhiestand.com/the-rhythm-of-a-bi-vocational-pastor-with-three-jobs-and-three-kids/11/comment-page-1/#comment-49292</link>
		<dc:creator>the rhythm of a double life</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 19:31:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toddhiestand.com/?p=1947#comment-49292</guid>
		<description>[...] On my trip to New York in October, I was sitting in a restaurant on the Upper West Side with Michael Rudzena, Ben Sternke, and Jon Tyson. We got into a discussion on what our typical weekly schedules look like. It was a helpful conversation, and I was reminded of it earlier this week as Todd shared his tri-vocational schedule. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] On my trip to New York in October, I was sitting in a restaurant on the Upper West Side with Michael Rudzena, Ben Sternke, and Jon Tyson. We got into a discussion on what our typical weekly schedules look like. It was a helpful conversation, and I was reminded of it earlier this week as Todd shared his tri-vocational schedule. [...]</p>
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